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Poster: Arck Date: Apr 12, 2009 7:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: 22, 23, 26 and 26 January 1968 Eagles Auditorium, Seattle WA

The recent Road Trips release has got me wondering again about these dates. I thought I'd figured it out - i.e. the 22nd and 23rd are bogus dates and the shows were really on the 26th and 27th. This makes more sense to me as it puts the Pacific North-West tour as taking place on 26, 27, 29 and 30 Jan and 2, 3 and 4 Feb. The 22nd and 23rd dates seem a bit out of place.

Is there are definitive answer on this? The release lists a whole load of tracks from 23 Jan...possibly too many. Does anyone have any opinions on this? It's not really a big deal - the music is good and that's enough.

I'm just curious. It strikes me as odd that the band would play on the 22nd and/or 23rd in Seattle, then not play for nearly a week, then do a show in Portland. Similarly it's seems strange that they'd play on the 22nd and/or 23rd, then AGAIN on the 26th and/or 27th at the same venue, then continue the tour.

Too much time on my hands? I think so.

PS. I'm sure this has been covered before so feel free to direct me to a previous discussion.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Apr 12, 2009 12:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 22, 23, 26 and 26 January 1968 Eagles Auditorium, Seattle WA

A few thoughts -

Either way you date the shows, there's still a hole in the tour - either from the 20th to 26th, or the 23rd to 29th. Since the 1/20 show was in Eureka, and the newspaper ads confirm only the Seattle 26th/27th shows, maybe it's most logical to assume that there really weren't shows on the 22nd/23rd. (It would only take a day or so to drive from Eureka to Seattle & set up, so a show on the 22nd is at least possible.)

But then that leaves the question of the 1/23 date on the Road Trips. These songs can easily come from the same show as the "1/23" show we have - put the two together, and since there are no repeats, you have almost a complete show, similar to "1/22". Now, how would they know the date? There must have been something written on the tape reels - either "Eagles Aud" or "Seattle" or "1/23".
The Dead would have been checking these reels in the studio shortly after the tour - and the source must have been a copy of the master, or clipped from the original recordings - they should've kept the dates straight, if only to be able to find a performance they were looking for.
(But that's not taking into account their state of mind....I can also imagine some completely stoned roadie looking over a bunch of blank unlabeled reels in Feb '68 and asking "Hey man, what days were we in Seattle?")

I also don't think it's a coincidence that none of the new songs duplicates what we have. These must have been separated from the other reels early on (perhaps the Dead switched studios?). Given how many shows or pieces of shows are missing from this tour, things must have been chaotic - they were probably losing reels left & right!

The other question is, what about the 1/22 show we have? If we say that the 1/23 show is really 1/26 - we already have a different Spanish Jam from 1/27 (unless that's mislabeled too) - so can we say the "1/22" show is really from some completely different date? It has to be a January show, because it still has the early lyrics to the Other One (which were re-written on Feb 3).

Anyway, I'm leaving it open. The issue of whether a show is Jan 23 or 26 is a pretty small one! Remember the Dead only just started taping themselves that month, they could easily mix things up or misdate things themselves. And there's a whole collection on the Archive of "mystery 1968 reels" that nobody knows the dates of.

Looking at it in a larger sense, it's amazing that we have correct dates for almost all their early shows. If you check the list of "commonly mislabeled tapes" in the first Taping Compendium, you can see that even in the '90s, whole bunches of shows up to 1970 had completely random & wrong dates on them.
And even today, some shows in 1967 are still going under wildly incorrect dates. ("5/5/67" for instance, I think is an August/September show, and "1/27/67" is clearly late September/October.) There are a few instances later on too (like the July 11-12 1970 shows, which got their dates reversed on the tapes).
But for now, it's easiest to call shows by their usual names - I'll keep referring to the 1/23/68 show until a different date is proven!

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Apr 12, 2009 8:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 22, 23, 26 and 26 January 1968 Eagles Auditorium, Seattle WA

They were certainly in Eureka on the 20th, so it's likely there were some other performances in Washington/Oregon prior to 1/26, but I've never seen any evidence of a show taking place on either 1/22-23, other than a couple guys claiming to have attended 1/22 at the Eagle's auditorium.

The official Grateful Dead website archive of shows lists no performance on 1/23/68. I also assumed the files for 1/23 were from 1/26, so it seems odd that the bonus tracks on RT 2-2 are listed as 1/23...

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Poster: veblen Date: Apr 12, 2009 9:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 22, 23, 26 and 26 January 1968 Eagles Auditorium, Seattle WA

we have been down this road more than once and am on the side of the 26th and 27th.

But my question is how can a cd be released with dates that are not even backed by the band's own records?

http://www.dead.net/shows/1968
(thanks cliff, I never checked the "official" site thinking they at least had a date disclaimer like the one posted below)

http://www.deadnetstore.com/roadtripsv2n2.aspx

plus to be released to a community that seems to take great pride in historical accuracy.

not to mention having additional songs from 01-23 that are not even part of the set that circulates as 01-23.

For those that the new release are there any date disclaimers or any additional info included.

Anyway, if I wasn't just in it for the tunes I would be pissed.

---

posted this before but this is from deadlists on 01-23:

"Although this circulates labeled as "1/23/68 Eagles Aud", no documentary evidence (posters, reviews, newspaper ads, etc) has been found for shows there during the Quick and the Dead tour, other than the two on 1/26 and 1/27. Joe Jupille researched the University of Washington Daily and the Seattle Post-Intelligencer newspapers and only found an ad for QMS and the Dead on 1/26 and 1/27 in the 1/26/68 edition of the Seattle Post-Intelligencer (the weekend entertainment insert, p. 6). He turned up no mention of other Quick and the Dead shows at Eagles Auditorium. "

This post was modified by veblen on 2009-04-12 16:42:57

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 12, 2009 9:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 22, 23, 26 and 26 January 1968 Eagles Auditorium, Seattle WA

Hey, this is just the sort of stuff we live for around here, so glad to consider it!

I am of no help to you, though, as I have not spent much time on this particular mystery. I have rec'd my info from CLIFF, via previous discussions (some time ago!) here, and that's about it...oh, and whatever is covered in the reviews as you two imply.

Agree that the dates make for a long trip, but I seem to recall that it was described as a lengthy trip (someone's book? can't recall!), so a total of almost 2 wks might have been possible...with visits to various sorts that had migrated north to OR & WA after the close of 67, perhaps?

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Poster: Arck Date: Apr 13, 2009 7:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 22, 23, 26 and 26 January 1968 Eagles Auditorium, Seattle WA

Hmmm, so it's quite reasonable that the band played on the 22nd, 23rd, 26th and 27th. Perhaps two of those shows were at Eagles Auditorium, while the other two were at some other venue and, as you've said, the dates/shows were mixed up over time. That seems more likely than the big gap that appears if only two of the shows took place.

I agree that it's amazing that we know anything about this time considering how crazy it must have been. Saying that, is there anything we DO know about each date?

Firstly, does the existence of ads for shows on the 26th and 27th mean we have to assume those two shows took place? Maybe the whole thing is a case of shows originally being on the 26th and 27th and then being rescheduled. It's possible, but I'm not sure it's possible to make the jump.

Setlists we have...

22 Jan - Eagles

DeadBase:
Alligator, Cryptical> OO> Cryptical> New Potato Caboose> Born Cross-Eyed> Spanish Jam> Dark Star> China Cat> Eleven> Caution> Feedback

Deadlists:
same, but add a > AWBYG at the end (possible but, I believe, would make it the first known AWBYG)

- This looks like a show's worth of music to me.

23 Jan - Eagles

Deadbase:
N/A

Deadlists:
Cryptical> OO> Cryptical> Clementine> New Potato Caboose> Born Cross-Eyed> Spanish Jam

Plus what is dated 23 Jan on RTV2N2:
Viola Lee Blues, BIODTL, Hurts Me Too, Dark Star> China Cat> Eleven> Lovelight

- Combining the Deadlists and RTV2N2 songs gives a show's worth. As some of you said, there are no repeats.

26 Jan - Eagles

DeadBase:
New Potato Caboose> Born Cross-Eyed, Caution

Deadlists:
Just refers to DeadBase.

- It's not very weighty evidence as the setlists were always similar but the songs listed in DeadBase all correspond to songs listed for the 22nd in DeadBase and Deadlists.

27 Jan - Eagles

DeadBase:
Born Cross-Eyed

Deadlists:
Lovelight, Spanish Jam

- Ditto re: the corresponding song.

Maybe, just maybe there were only two shows, not four shows...??

I could email David Lemieux but he's hardly going to say "Yeah, we weren't sure so we just put on the 23rd because it was as good as any date." I'm not sure I'd get much info but it might be worth finding out. I'm just making myself more curious.

This post was modified by Arck on 2009-04-13 14:35:38

This post was modified by Arck on 2009-04-13 14:36:25

This post was modified by Arck on 2009-04-13 14:37:47

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 13, 2009 7:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 22, 23, 26 and 26 January 1968 Eagles Auditorium, Seattle WA

LiA's comment above:

"(But that's not taking into account their state of mind....I can also imagine some completely stoned roadie looking over a bunch of blank unlabeled reels in Feb '68 and asking "Hey man, what days were we in Seattle?")"

Recall that we have the instance of the expanded Work's Dead with the bonus track, a live UJB, listed as coming from Dec 70, that clearly is the one from 10-4-70, that LiA and I (and a few others) were speaking of some weeks ago.

Maybe we should be on retainer for Rhino (hmmm) as "PIDEEs" (Private Investigators, DEAD Early Era).

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Poster: waynecs Date: Apr 13, 2009 10:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 22, 23, 26 and 26 January 1968 Eagles Auditorium, Seattle WA

Dammit,How am I supposed to know what date to set the time machine for?